Meet The Predators
A huge proportion of the women I know enough to talk with about it have survived an attempted or completed rape. None of them was raped by a stranger who attacked them from behind a bush, hid in the back of her car or any of the other scenarios that fit the social script of stranger rape. Anyone reading this post, in fact, is likely to know that six out of seven rapes are committed by someone the victim knows. It has been clear for a long time, at least since Robin Warshaw’s groundbreaking “I Never Called It Rape,” which used Mary Koss’s reseach, that the stranger rape script did not describe rape as most women experienced it. It’s easy to picture the stranger rapist: a violent criminal, not much different from the violent criminals who commit other violent crimes. This guy was in prison before, and he’ll be back there again, though not for rape because reporting and conviction rates are so low. (See, generally, Susan Brownmiller’s Against Our Will.)
But who commits the vast majority of rapes, the nonstranger rapes? The acquaintance rapes? Anecdotally, we all know the answer — or an answer, or some answers. The tall guy, the short guy, the skinny guy, the fat guy, the frat guy, the nerdy guy, the jock, the geek, the date, the friend-of-a-friend, the drinking buddy, and the guy from accounting. Lots of different guys in lots of different circumstances.
When women note that the rapists don’t come with convenient notes on their foreheads and that therefore women have to entertain the possibility that every guy (even ones they know a bit) are rapists, folks get all sorts of upset. But the less women know about who these guys are, the less they know who to worry about.
It is notoriously tough to figure out who the rapists are. Reporting and conviction rates for acquaintance rapes are so low as to be useless as a diagnostic tool. And how else can we know? The rapists won’t just tell us that they are rapists, right?
That’s what I would have though. Turns out I thought wrong. If a survey asks men, for example, if they ever “had sexual intercourse with somone, even though they did not want to, because they were too intoxicated (on alcohol or drugs) to resist your sexual advances,” some of them will say yes, as long as the questions don’t use the “R” word.
I have taken a look at two large-sample surverys of undetected rapists. One is Repeat Rape and Multiple Offending Among Undetected Rapists by David Lesak and Paul M. Miller, published in Violence and Victims, Vol 17, No. 1, 2002 (Lisak & Miller 2002). The other is Reports of Rape Reperpetration by Newly Enlisted Male Navy Personnel by Stephanie K. McWhorter, et al., published in Violence and Victims, Vol, 24, No. 2, 2009 (McWhorter 2009). (I can’t link to either study because neither is available in full for free.)
These look to me to be the best available data on who the rapists are who have not been caught and incarcerated — which is the vast, vast majority. They are, however, limited, so that in talking about them it constrains the discussion of rape into a narrow range around a modal form of men raping women.*
Lisak & Miller
Lisak & Miller set out to answer two questions:
First, do a substantial number of undetected rapists rape more than once (i.e. repeat rapists)? Second, do undetected rapists (repeat or otherwise), like their incarcerated counterparts, commit other types of interpersonal violence …?
Lisak & Miller at p. 74.
Their sample was 1882 college students, ranging in age from 18 to 71 with a median age of 26.5 — so somewhat older than a traditional college population. The group was also ethnically diverse. They asked this group four questions about rape and attempted rape. I’ll paraphrase:
1) Have you ever attempted unsuccessfully to have intercourse with an adult by force or threat of force?
2) Have you ever had sexual intercourse with someone who did not want you to because they were too intoxicated to resist?
3) Have you ever had intercourse with someone by force or threat of force?
4) Have you ever had oral intercourse with someone by force or threat of force?
[Edited to add: I paraphrased the questions to make them shorter, but now the questions are being quoted, so I thought it was only fair to the authors to key in the full text of the questions they used:
(1) Have you ever been in a situation where you tried, but for various reasons did not succeed, in having sexual intercourse with an adult by using or threatening to use physical force (twisting their arm, holding them down, etc.) if they did not cooperate?
(2) Have you ever had sexual intercourse with someone, even though they did not want to, because they were too intoxicated (on alcohol or drugs) to resist your sexual advances (e.g., removing their clothes)?
(3) Have you ever had sexual intercourse with an adult when they didn’t want to because you used or threatened to use physical force (twisting their arm; holding them down, etc.) if they didn’t cooperate?
(4) Have you ever had oral sex with an adult when they didn’t want to because you used or threatened to use physical force (twisting their arm; holding them down, etc.) if they didn’t cooperate?
Lisak & Miller at 77-78.]
So without quibbling over the precise statutory definition, this equates to rape or attempted rape. 120 men admitted to raping to attempting to rape. This is actually a relatively slim proportion of the survey population — just over 6% — and might be an underreport, though for part of the sample, the survey team did interviews to confirm the self-reports, which tends to show if there is an undercount in the self-reports, and found the responses consistent. But the more interesting part of the findings were how those rapists and their offenses broke down.
Of the 120 rapists in the sample, 44 reported only one assault. The remaining 76 were repeat offenders. These 76 men, 63% of the rapists, committed 439 rapes or attempted rapes, an average of 5.8 each (median of 3, so there were some super-repeat offenders in this group). Just 4% of the men surveyed committed over 400 attempted or completed rapes.
The breakdown between the modus operandi of the rapists also tells us a lot about how wrong the script is. Of all 120 admitted rapists, only about 30% reported using force or threats, while the remainder raped intoxicated victims. This proportion was roughly the same between the 44 rapists who reported one assault and the 76 who reported multiple assaults. (What the authors call “overt-force rapists” committed more sexual assaults, on average, than the “intoxication rapists” by about 6 to 3, but the parts of the sample are so small that this result did not reach statistical significance and could be sampling error rather than a real phenomenon. I’d really like an answer to that, though.)
Lisak & Miller also answered their other question: are rapists responsible for more violence generally? Yes. The surveys covered other violent acts, such as slapping or choking an intimate partner, physically or sexually abusing a child, and sexual assaults other than attempted or completed rapes. In the realm of being partner- and child-beating monsters, the repeat rapists really stood out. These 76 men, just 4% of the sample, were responsible for 28% of the reported violence. The whole sample of almost 1900 men reported just under 4000 violent acts, but this 4% of recidivist rapists results in over 1000 of those violent acts.
If we could eliminate the men who rape again and again and again, a quarter of the violence against women and children would disappear. That’s the public policy implication.
McWhorter
Stephanie McWhorter and her colleagues completed a study just this year that in my view replicate the important results of Lisak & Miller, working with a very different population of young-ish men. She studied 1146 newly enlisted men in the U.S. Navy, asking them about their behavior since age 14. McWhorter’s participants were younger than Lisak & Miller’s sample, averaging just under 20 and topping out at 34, as one would expect from a sample of military recruits. The study was longitudinal, following up at intervals during the participants’ Navy hitch.
McWhorter used a Sexual Experiences Survey tool that has been in use for more than 20 years. Of her 1146 participants, 144, or 13%, admitted an attempted or completed rape — substantially higher than Lisak & Miller. But in another respect, her work very much matched theirs: 71% of the men who admitted an attempted or completed rape admitted more than one, very close to Lisak & Miller’s 63%. The 96 men who admitted multiple attempted of completed rapes in McWhorter’s survey averaged 6.36 assaults each. This is not far from Lisak & Miller’s average of 5.8 assaults per recidivist. Looked at another way, of the 865 total attempted or completed rapes these men admitted to, a staggering 95% were committed by 96 men, or just 8.4% of the sample.
McWhorter’s findings on modus operandi also confirm the basic finding of Lisak & Miller’s earlier study: 61% of the reported attacks were intoxication-based, 23% were overt force alone, and 16% were both. (77% of the pre-enlistment and 75% of the post-enlistment rapes or attempted rapes were, in whole or in part, intoxication attacks. But 34% of pre-enlistment and 45% of post-enlistment assaults involved overt force, a change in pattern that ought to be explained by further research.)
McWhorter’s research also indicates that rapists start young. Of the men who did not report an assault pre-enlistment, only 2% reported assaults while in the Navy, but 16% of those who admitted that they raped or attempted to rape between age 14 and enlistment also said they did it again while enlisted. 60% of rapists, however, said their first assault was after they turned 18. This implies that there is a window when rapists start raping, in their late teens.
Finally, in an entirely unsurprising finding, rapists who admitted assaulting strangers – ever – were less than a quarter of the rapist population. More than 90% targeted acquaintances some of the time, and about 75% said they only targeted acquaintances. Only 7% of all the self-reported rapists reported targeting only strangers. And, in fact, there was zero overlap between the men who said they targeted starangers, and those who used only force.
I’m going to repeat that, because I think it is important. As McWhorter wrote:
Of the men who used only force against their victims, none reported raping a stranger; all the men knew their victims… [T]he stereotypical rape incident characterized by a man violently attacking a stranger was not reported by any of the respondents. Instead, respondents who used only force against their victims reported raping only women they knew. men who trageted strangers exclusively reported they used substances only in the rape incident.
These findings may help explain why most self-reported [attempted or completed rape] incidents go undetected.
McWhorter, p. 212-13.
Conclusions
Lots of smart people will take a lot of different things away from this research on undetected rapists, and on more research that will hopefully follow. Here are my impressions:
First, the stranger-force rape is a small proportion of rapes, and is all but absent from the samples of self-reporters. Other research** shows that lack of prior acquaintance and use of the weapon are the only significant factors that increase the likelihood that a victim will report the offense. Attacking strangers with force or weapons is the only pattern of victimization at all likely to lead to incarceration of the rapist, let’s face it — so those who commit rape in the way that follows the script may be already in jail, not in college or the Navy filling out surveys. The rapists who are out there are mostly using intoxication, and mostly attacking victims they know.
Second, the sometimes-floated notion that acquaintance rape is simply a mistake about consent, is wrong. (See Amanda Hess’s excellent takedown here.) The vast majority of the offenses are being committed by a relatively small group of men, somewhere between 4% and 8% of the population, who do it again … and again … and again. That just doesn’t square with the notion of innocent mistake. Further, since the repeaters are also responsible for a hugely disproportionate share of the intimate partner violence, child beating and child sexual abuse, the notion that these predators are somehow confused good guys does not square with the data. Most of the raping is done by guys who like to rape, and to abuse, assault and violate. If we could get the one-in-twelve or one-in-25 repeat rapists out of the population (that is a lot of men — perhaps six or twelve million men in the U.S. alone) or find a way to stop them from hurting others, most sexual assault, and a lot of intimate partner violence and child abuse, would go away. Really.
Recommendation
I’m directing this to men who inhabit het-identified social spaces, and I’m not really limiting it more than that. Women are already doing what they can to prevent rape; brokering a peace with the fear is part of their lives that we can never fully understand. We’re the ones who are not doing our jobs.
Here’s what we need to do. We need to spot the rapists, and we need to shut down the social structures that give them a license to operate. They are in the population, among us. They have an average of six victims, women that they know, and therefore likely some women you know. They use force sometimes, but mostly they use intoxicants. They don’t accidentally end up in a room with a woman too drunk or high to consent or resist; they plan on getting there and that’s where they end up.
Listen. The women you know will tell you when the men they thought they could trust assaulted them; if and only if they know you won’t stonewall, deny, blame or judge. Let them tell you that they got drunk, and woke up with your buddy on top of them. Listen. Don’t defend that guy. That guy is more likely than not a recidivist. He has probably done it before. He will probably do it again.
Change the culture. To rape again and again, these men need silence. They need to know that the right combination of factors — alcohol and sex shame, mostly — will keep their victims quiet. Otherwise, they would be identified earlier and have a harder time finding victims. The women in your life need to be able to talk frankly about sexual assault. They need to be able to tell you, and they need to know that they can tell you, and not be stonewalled, denied, blamed or judged.
Listen. The men in your lives will tell you what they do. As long as the R word doesn’t get attached, rapists do self-report. The guy who says he sees a woman too drunk to know where she is as an opportunity is not joking. He’s telling you how he sees it. The guy who says, “bros before hos”, is asking you to make a pact.
The Pact. The social structure that allows the predators to hide in plain sight, to sit at the bar at the same table with everyone, take a target home, rape her, and stay in the same social circle because she can’t or won’t tell anyone, or because nobody does anything if she does. The pact to make excuses, to look for mitigation, to patch things over — to believe that what happens to our friends — what our friends do to our friends — is not (using Whoopi Goldberg’s pathetic apologetics) “rape-rape”.
Change the culture. We are not going to pull six or ten or twelve million men out of the U.S. population over any short period, so if we are going to put a dent in the prevalence of rape, we need to change the environment that the rapist operates in. Choose not to be part of a rape-supportive environment. Rape jokes are not jokes. Woman-hating jokes are not jokes. These guys are telling you what they think. When you laugh along to get their approval, you give them yours. You tell them that the social license to operate is in force; that you’ll go along with the pact to turn your eyes away from the evidence; to make excuses for them; to assume it’s a mistake, of the first time, or a confusing situation. You’re telling them that they’re at low risk.
I saw economist James Galbraith not long ago — an economist beloved of progressives everywhere. Galbraith said, among other things, “First rule of economics: incentives work.” He was speaking in another context, but this applies to rape. The overwhelming prevalence of acquaintance over stranger rapes and of intoxication over overt force, and the relative rarity of weapon use and physical injuries, is easily explained. Rapists know what works. They like to rape, they want to keep doing it, they want not to be caught. It is in their interest to be very sensitive to which accounts of rape are believed and which are attacked and to know which targets and methods are lowest-risk for them.
What they do is what works. They rape their drunk acquaintances because it works. They rape their drunk acquaintances because we let them.
We need to revoke the rapists’ social license to operate. We need to stop asking, “why do we think he didn’t know she wasn’t consenting,” which is the first question now, really. First as a cultural matter — leaving the legal matter aside — we need to adopt the stance that sexual interaction ought to always be had in a state of affirmative consent by all participants; that anything else is aberrant. If someone says, “I was sexually assaulted,” the first question should be, “why was a person continuing with sexual activity when zir partner did not want to?”
This is what it is: real rape happens when the attacker is drunk and the target is drunker and alone and isolated. That’s rape-rape. If he gets away with it, it will be, on average, rape-rape-rape-rape-rape-rape. If we refuse to listen, he can continue to pretend that the rapist is some guy in the parking lot late at night, when it’s actually him, in our friends’ bedrooms half an hour after last call. If we let that happen, we’re part of the problem.
The rapists can’t be your friends, and if you are loyal to them even when faced with the evidence of what they do, you are complicit.
*Big caveat here: The research in this area is still in an almost embryonic state, though. Since both studies only look at male attackers and don’t discuss the sex, orientation or gender identity of victims at all, I’m kind of stuck with discussing rapes committed by men and presuming that their adult victims are women, though I’m almost certain there are exceptions that are not broken out in this data, and that are probably too few in number to allow conclusions about anyway. I’m going to address rape within the constaints of the data, which is about male rapists, and speak as if the modal assault, which is against a woman, is all assaults. That ignores a lot in terms of topics and dynamics, if not raw numbers, and I’m aware of how much it ignores, but just having any data from a non-incarcerated sample of rapists is a huge improvement over having none.
**Lisak & Miller cite Frazier, P.A. & Haney, B. (1996). Sexual assault cases in the legal system: Police, prosecutor and victim perspectives. Law and Human Behavior, 20, 607-628. I have not read it.
This entry was posted on November 12, 2009 at 11:52 am and is filed under is consent complicated? with tags Alcohol, rape, sexual assault. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.











November 12, 2009 at 12:51 pm
[...] not going to take that guy’s bullshit anymore. Thomas over at the Yes Means Yes! blog has crunched the numbers on “undetected” acquaintance rapists to figure out who this “accidental [...]
November 12, 2009 at 1:32 pm
Thank you so much for posting this. It boils down really useful info for prevention work. It goes without saying that we need more research like this to shatter rape myths for the gen. population.
November 12, 2009 at 3:28 pm
I hope this works. I hope enough guys get on board to bust the rape culture.
But I’m not holding my breath. Not when I’ve watched my guy friends (who I love and adore, who would never rape a woman themselves) circle the wagons and oust one of our female friends before even being willing to say that an abusive male friend of ours was out of line. I’ve watched them walk the “we don’t really know what happened” line and the “she has her own issues” line. Not when I’ve watched otherwise progressive men allow a college woman to be berated to tears, not when I’ve watched that same man get hired in a role that gives him authority over her, not when I’ve watched the backlash against her when she consulted a lawyer about a restraining order because he just wouldn’t leave her alone.
He didn’t rape her (as far as I know), but he sure seems to be trying, or at least trying to use the veiled threat of doing so to control her. At the very least, he’s instigating some pretty repugnant interpersonal violence. If my guy friends let this go on…I’m not holding my breath that they’d suddenly get some cajones if there was reason to believe he raped her. If friends let friends be violent stalkers, why wouldn’t they let friends be rapists?
Prove me wrong. (Please!)
November 13, 2009 at 8:44 am
I suggest (politely?) confronting them about protecting the asshole and finding new friends if they don’t see a problem with what they did after some discussion. What are they afraid of? Do they think women go around accusing perfectly innocent men of awful things for the lolz? Or are they really not that innocent themselves?
I was in your position once… my supposed guy ‘friends’ treated me like shit just the same as the other girl who was ousted for saying the r-word against one of their own.
Another group of “friends” (m/f) banded around my ex and ran me out of town after we broke up and I filed a restraining order (he got really creepy, started threatening me, and my tires were slashed repeatedly). He lied extensively about me to everyone we knew and suddenly nobody was speaking to me, without ever asking my side of things. I would have never known what happened, except that my ex was also lying about me to my new partner in an attempt to convince him to dump me.
I’ve sort of come to the conclusion that in “he said, she said” disputes everyone always sides with the male, no matter what horrible things they know he’s done or how much of a jerk he is.
December 3, 2009 at 10:01 am
“What are they afraid of? Do they think women go around accusing perfectly innocent men of awful things for the lolz? Or are they really not that innocent themselves?”
Actually, I find that THIS is exactly the problem I have! Whenever I try to talk to the males in my life about rape, I ALWAYS, ALWAYS get the “Yes, but women just go around rooning the puir menz’s lives by crying “rape” left and right”.
How can one respond to THAT level of harmful ignorant self-deceiving self-interest?
November 13, 2009 at 7:58 am
A++ would read again.
Everything pretty much corroborates what I’ve seen in my life. I’ve only experienced threats or violence from men I know, not strangers in bushes. The same is true for my female friends. Also seen friends protecting rapists. I’ve done a lot of bridge burning over that, but the men never seem to get it or change.
November 13, 2009 at 10:59 am
[...] Also from Yes Means Yes, a paraphrase of some studies about who commits rape. [...]
November 13, 2009 at 1:14 pm
Rather than “paraphrasing” the questions from the study, can you post what the participants were actually asked? It’s sort-of an important point. Thanks.
November 13, 2009 at 2:07 pm
Before I even saw your comment, I concluded that because people were quoting my paraphrase I should put in the full text. Edits above.
November 13, 2009 at 6:45 pm
Wow, this is some amazing stuff. I’m really thankful that you posted studies and statistics like these, because there’s really a shortage of information on who is a rapist, and a glut of information on who they are raping (as if being someone or acting in a certain fashion forces the hand of rapists).
Do you terribly mind if I quote some of this information on my blog and in a research paper I’m doing?
November 13, 2009 at 10:36 pm
[...] away for the weekend, with very limited internet access, but I wanted to point you towards the Yes Means Yes blog, which has an excellent post about rapists’ behaviors: new research confirms that most [...]
November 14, 2009 at 12:58 pm
Thanks for doing this. It’s not really new to me… but it’s important to have out there, explicitly. ‘Cause you know the people who ignore anonymous surveys where women report what happened to them might take it seriously when men report what they did.
November 15, 2009 at 6:14 am
This is a very well written piece about the issue. I have spread it around amongst my friends – men and women. Thanks.
November 15, 2009 at 10:57 pm
So informative. I wonder if they asked the men any other questions about themselves. Although it’s less than 10% I wouldn’t be surprised if these men are more likely to be at bars and clubs purposely talking to women. Scary. I also think we have to insist that information like this not be used to blame women. It would be easy for someone to say that this shows if drunk women weren’t alone with men, there would be a lot fewer rapes.
November 16, 2009 at 3:26 am
You know, Thomas, you *could* have also said that this research is basically saying that not every man is a potential rapist. That rapists are in fact a rather small part of the population and they’re ruining it for everyone.
But I doubt those men you describe are primarily motivated by implicit social approval. If that were the case, one would have to wonder why the rest of men apparently don’t become rapists. Are they too decent people to fall for the lures of the alleged rape culture? All this does add up to two main conclusions: one – not all men are rapists. two – those who are, don’t seem to be motivated by homosocial approval.
I’m all for speaking up about these matters. But what you have here is a deconstruction of “rape culture” rather than a confirmation….
November 16, 2009 at 7:26 am
Depends on what you mean by “potential.” From the point of view of a woman who knows you but not very, very well … you’re a potential rapist. There’s about a one-in-ten chance you’re a rapist, and somewhere between one in twelve and twenty-five that you’re a recidivist. You can say you’re not, but how does she know that?
Also, to be blunt, if your first concern on reading about hundreds of self-reported attempted and completed rapes is whether the research supports the proposition that most men are in the clear … you need to get your head screwed on straight. Women worrying that you might be a rapist is not a bigger problem than women getting raped.
About homosocial approval, I just think you don’t understand. They get homosocial approval, through people bending over backwards to reinterpret what they do as something other than rape. About deconstruction, it’s not clear to me that you’re using that term in any way I recognize … or that Derrida would recognize.
November 16, 2009 at 3:23 pm
I’m not worried about women worrying about me being a potential rapist. Being careful is just good sense. I also don’t leave my computer in my car and don’t lock it although I know that most people would not take it.
The thing is that you’re trying to talk to men about relating to other men. And instead of acknowledging that this research is basically falsifying the usual feminist message that all men are potential rapists and telling them that this means there’s no real reason to be defensive because *it’s not about them* (even though that’s not immediately obvious) you reiterate the notion that there is a cultural thread somewhere that makes people rapists while the research you quote actually seems to indicate the opposite. Some people are sexually violent regardless of the culture. Again, why wouldn’t 90% of the men become rapists in a truly rape approving society if the social approval were actually a) there and b) morally decisive in any way. I think, again, this is a pretty good argument against the notion of a “rape culture”.
The only people not calling it rape are apparently the researchers who used euphemisms to get an answer. And I wouldn’t call that approval.
November 16, 2009 at 5:11 pm
Look, if you are just here to argue that there is no “rape culture” and feminists have it all wrong, you’re wasting time. I don’t care about your time, waste it all you want. But you’re not going to waste my time.
roughly 13% of the population are rapists. Between 4% and 8% are recidivists. About 15% of women will be raped in their lifetime. That’s about 23 million US women.
23 million.
At least 4% of the population have raped women more than once. That’s 6 million US men. 6 million with an average of 6 victims each (which implies that many women have been raped more than once; which is sadly consistent with my experience).
That’s a giant public health crisis. That that goes on and is not the major story in the news regularly; doesn’t have public campaigns the size of the pink ribbon campaign, that — that _is_ a rape culture.
November 16, 2009 at 5:34 pm
Thomas,
“That that goes on and is not the major story in the news regularly; doesn’t have public campaigns the size of the pink ribbon campaign, that — that _is_ a rape culture.”
No, I’d say it’s resignation given that there really isn’t much that you can do about the numbers – as this research demonstrates. Are we a theft culture because there is a basic acceptance that theft will occur? Are we a murder culture because murder will occur? Do you think that rape is less acknowledged as a social problem than murder or theft? There’s usually an evidence problem in rape cases, but that doesn’t mean rape is in any way culturally condoned. I just don’t see where you get that. And again, if rape were socially incentivized, why do only about 10% of all men become rapists, using your numbers? If, as you mention by quoting Galbraith, incentives work, and there were incentives encouraging rape, wouldn’t one expect a much higher number? So, assuming that incentives actually work, and assuming only social variables at work, the disincentives to rape do apparently outweigh the incentives 9 to 1, c.p.. Why would you call *that* a rape culture?
November 16, 2009 at 6:59 pm
As long as I have the power of the banhammer here, this blog will never be a place where men can make the argument that a culture where one in ten men rapes women is not a rape culture.
Banned. Don’t let the door hit your ass on the way out.
November 16, 2009 at 5:52 am
[...] RAPIST — as in who these creeps really are. In the words of the author of this article called Meet the Predators: The vast majority of the offenses are being committed by a relatively small group of men, [...]
November 16, 2009 at 11:29 am
Great article, but I really need to point out a spelling mistake — in the third sentence of the fourth paragraph after the edit where you added the actual questions asked by the Lisak study, it reads ‘chile’ instead of ‘child’, which kind of changes the impact of the sentence.
Otherwise, I really like the article — I’m part of a campus sexual assault awareness org and we refer to these studies pretty often during our events.
November 16, 2009 at 2:35 pm
Edited to correct typos. Thanks.
November 16, 2009 at 1:02 pm
This is an astoundingly important pair of studies.
If we could separate out the habits of the “force-using” rapists from those of the “intoxication-using” rapists it might make them even easier to identify.
“. These guys are telling you what they thing. When you laugh along to get their approval, you give them yours. You tell them that the social license to operate is in force; that you’ll go along with the pact to turn your eyes away from the evidence; to make excuses for them; to assume it’s a mistake, of the first time, or a confusing situation. You’re telling them that they’re at low risk.”
However, there’s an added aspect — if you challenge them immediately at their creepy comments and tell them that the license is *not* in force, that you will *not* go along, etc., they may quickly learn to censor themselves around *YOU*. And so do many of their enabler friends. They just treat you as an exception to ‘look good’ around and keep going.
Frankly, I’m thinking it’s best to just report them as dangerous to any women you know, immediately.
November 16, 2009 at 2:38 pm
But if they find they have a lot of exceptions to work around, then the assumption that they will generally get favorable treatment begins to break down, and their perceived risk level rises — which is the only brake on their behavior. Telling your female friends to avoid them helps your friends. Showing that not every man will tolerate their conduct helps every woman.
November 16, 2009 at 3:17 pm
[...] dem Yes means yes- Blog wird dazu aufgerufen, diesen Arschlöchern sämtliche Solidarität zu entziehen. Denn dies geschieht tagtäglich, auch wenn die Mehrheit wohl gleich schreien würde: [...]
November 16, 2009 at 5:03 pm
Because there was no automatic trackback (used?) as far as I can see:
The Mädchenblog (a German feminist blog) linked your text and is citing you. Just for the record. Maybe that encourages you to post more such revealing articles : )
http://maedchenblog.blogsport.de/2009/11/16/solange-das-boese-wort-nicht-faellt/
Disclaimer:
I’m just reading the Mädchenblog and sharing its agenda but I’m in no other way affiliated to the Mädchenblog.
November 16, 2009 at 8:41 pm
this is an interesting story to read, but i can’t as the white type on black is just very uncomfortable for my eyes…
December 2, 2009 at 9:58 pm
I have a lot of trouble with the grey-text-on-black myself. Highlighting is your friend.
November 17, 2009 at 11:00 am
What really amazes me is that so many rapists will admit to raping! Do the studies’ authors have any comments on why the respondents would admit to assaulting and raping? I realize the questions were careful not to use the word ‘rape’ but surely they still know they are self-reporting crimes?
November 17, 2009 at 12:02 pm
As to the crime part, assurances of confidentiality. They know they won’t be prosecuted. On the ethics front, I think the answer is that the rapists don’t believe it’s wrong. I think the important part is that, as someone on the Jezebel thread pointed out, there’s general agreement that there is something called “rape,” and that “rape” is wrong, but these guys neither believe that penetration of an intoxicated woman who cannot resist is rape, nor that it is wrong.
Lisak has other research on this, and I’ll probably write another post.
November 20, 2009 at 3:01 am
I agree with Thomas… many rapists don’t consider their less-than-consensual encounters “rape.” They think it has to involve dark alleys and guns to be rape. They assume consent unless a woman breaks your nose and tasers you, basically. (This was true of a couple rapists I used to know, anyway.) I think this problem stems from the “No means no” model of consent in combination with a mindset that women aren’t on the same level of humanity.
November 17, 2009 at 12:32 pm
[...] week, Thomas wrote a post at Yes Means Yes, called Meet The Predators, about recent studies which found that many rapists will admit to rape so long as the word [...]
November 19, 2009 at 9:21 pm
[...] back of some comments made by WA Police Commissioner Karl O’Callaghan. Today I stumbled on this excellent post that I recommend you all read. The author uses some survey based reports to develop the conclusion that not only are the [...]
November 19, 2009 at 9:36 pm
This is brilliant and I’ve linked it. Thank you for such a powerful and helpful post.
November 20, 2009 at 6:08 am
[...] “Meet the Predators“: a post on who rapes. [...]
November 20, 2009 at 12:41 pm
This is great, I will go read these studies ASAP.
Two thoughts….
Surveys that just ask men whether or not they’ve raped anyone are not at all new. Kinsey was doing it in 1948 and there have been many other studies since then. And I think the usual finding is that unlike other crimes, rape doesn’t carry much stigma (to rapists, anyway), so people are much more likely to self-report than they are to self-report stealing a car, say, or cheating on their income tax. But IIRC child molestors typically do not self-report in surveys.
As you say, this study looks at male-on-female rape. And the usual way that we justify this narrow lens is to presume that other versions of rape account for only a minor slice of all rape. And that assumption seems safe…but I think that that assumption actually reifies a certain “framing” of rape as an act that occurs between individuals in civil society. I’ve seen studies (cited in “Bound and Gagged,” I don’t have a direct refernence OTTOMH) that suggest that male-on-male prison rape would account for a large fraction of total rape in the US, if not a majority. I remember running the DOJ numbers myself, and feeling like prison rape can’t be a majority. But how much prison rape ever gets reported?
Point is, if we drop the civil-society framework, rape probably occurs largey in the contexts of war zones, human trafficking, and prisons. I think reforming or abolishing those spaces has to be high up on the agenda for ending rape.
November 21, 2009 at 6:11 am
[...] Kultur, die Vergewaltiger immer noch in ihrer Mitte duldet. Und noch der Verweis auf die ursprüngliche Auseinandersetzung auf Yes means Yes! mit den Studien, in denen sich Männer zu Vergewaltigungen [...]
November 21, 2009 at 3:49 pm
I have a question and I found this website/community online and I really feel that I would get supportive, honest answers if I ask, so here goes:
If a guy that I had met a couple times and did think was cute, and had considered the possibility of having sex with saw me at a party and I was blacked-out drunk for large portions of both the party and the sex and I don’t remember at all what I said or did for most of it but we did have unprotected sex, was it consensual? I don’t remember anything except waking up during and not knowing what was going on and then waking up the next morning in my bed naked. I can’t imagine I did say no even though I would not have actually wanted to do anything with him if I was sober since I am seeing someone I really like. I had thought about it though since I thought he was attractive, but I did not actually want to go through with it. What if he didn’t realize how drunk I was or he was too drunk himself to know? Is it my fault for drinking too much? I am dealing with tremendous amounts of guilt for cheating and I feel like I need to tell the guy I am seeing but I know he would blame me 100 percent, we have talked about it before and I know he thinks blacking out doesn’t give you any excuse for anything, which is probably true. What do I do?
November 22, 2009 at 3:20 am
Anon:
that sounds very horrible
i am sorry you went thru that.
technically, legally, if you were intoxicated, it was rape. if you were UNABLE to consent, it was rape.
if he was drunk too? still rape.
“having sex” with a person unable to consent – whether they are too young, too scared, too drunk – is rape.
November 23, 2009 at 5:19 pm
Anonymous, thanks for sharing your story and I’m glad you feel safe talling it here. What happened was not your fault. Lots of men and women drink too much; drinking too much does not cause rape. Rapists cause rape. As to whether he realized you didn’t consent, if you were blackout drunk I have a hard time believing he didn’t realize you were too drunk to make a meaningful decision. If he knows that, it doesn’t really matter what came out of your mouth — too drunk to give a meaningful answer is too drunk to say “yes.” Anyone whose “yes” is not meaningful has to be a “no.” Also, statistically, if he’s penetrating someone too drunk to resist, it’s somewhere between 90% and 95% likely that this isn’t the first time.
I don’t think you cheated. I think you got raped. I think your partner ought to understand that. I think if your partner doesn’t understand that, he’s the one with the problem. If you’re so drunk you can’t remember what you said, why is he assuming you said yes?
Finally, about the law: whether it’s legally rape depends on where you are. Unless you’re pressing charges, that really doesn’t matter. As a social and moral matter, legal definitions that vary can’t be taken as gospel — the same events on one side of a river are rape and on the other side are not a crime? That’s the law, but in terms of how we talk about experiences, that’s a silly result. Don’t worry about what the statute says.
Take a deep breath and remember to be fair to yourself. I don’t know much about recovery, and what I do know doesn’t offer any easy, one-size-fits-all advice. Find someone you can talk to and be good to yourself.
November 23, 2009 at 6:51 pm
Anon, you should go to your local rape crisis center. You said yourself, you would not have had sex with this man if you had been sober, because you are already seeing someone in a monogamous relationship. You need to report. Hugs offered.
December 2, 2009 at 10:06 pm
Anonymous, did you ever set your drink down and look away from it while someone else was nearby? If so, there’s a very good chance that you were not “blacked-out drunk”, you were DRUGGED with rohyphol (“roofies”) or another date-rape drug. Even if you had your drink in hand at all times, you could have been distracted enough for someone to sneak something into it.
Drunk or drugged, if you couldn’t consent, you were still raped. But if you were drugged, it was PREMEDITATED rape — someone gave you that drug with the specific intent of rendering you incapacitated, so that they could rape you later.
November 22, 2009 at 3:41 am
Thomas;
where was this post 3 weeks ago?
that’s a joke i have to explain.
in one of my Communication/Journalism classes, we each have to develope “PSA Campaigns” that address health concerns.
i chose the topic of rape in the US military.
the numbers are staggering – in 2007, the “rate” of rapes reported for that year in the US was 33/100,000 [the UN feels that this is less than half of the actual rapes that happened...]. in Europe, the average across the various nations in the EU is around 8/100,000. in the US military the rate is 193/100,000.
not a typo. in the year 2007 the rate of REPORTED rapes in the US military – rapes OF a person serving in the US military BY a person serving in the military – was one hundred and ninety-three per hundred thousand people.
the first paper for the project was due Nov 10. the second study you are speaking about would have been REALLY useful for the first paper – but it is STILL useful for the rest of the project.
as part of the project, we had to give “presentations” of our papers. and i stood in front of my class of 19-22 year “peers” [i am 32] half of whom are male, and presented my paper.
and THEN i had to EXPLAIN that it was NOT “man-hating”.
numbers in the US:
99% of all rapes are committed by men
91% of all rapes are committed against women
25% of all women will, at some point, suffer a sexual assault.
17% of all women will, at some point, suffer a SUCCESSFUL sexual assult
73% of all women will be sexually harrassed
i had to explain to the male students in my class, over and over again, that RAPE IS RAPE. i explained “enthusiastic consent” multiple times. and i WAS TOLD, out loud by a guy in front of a class of 60 students an a professor, that men slept with drunk women “to save time”.
“they’re going to give in and give it up eventually – all women are whores at heart. they just want something in return. we don’t always WANT to give them something. sometimes we just want sex now. and it’s a lot easier to get “no-strings sex” from a drunk girl than a sober girl. what’s wrong with that?”
“what wrong with that,” says I, trying to not explode all over the classroom “is that IS RAPE”
“no it isn’t”
“yes, yes it is. if a person does not want to have sex, and you make them have sex anyway, that is sex. whether you make them with a gun to their head or by too many shots, you are *still* denying their agency and not getting their consent. no consent equals rape”
and he says, and i am quoting exactly “if they didn’t want to get f*cked, they wouldn’t get drunk”.
i gave up. well, i said “you heard it ladies – never, ever be alone with [guy's name]. he’ll rape you and then say it was your fault”. THEN i gave up.
i’m tired. ya know? i really want to kill the hydra-that-is-rape, but it’s immortal and keeps sprouting new heads. the biggest anti-rape push campaign i ever saw was the “No means No”; and all it managed to do was encourage rapists, who now believe that if the word “no” isn’t said, it wasn’t rape. so what if he gagged her before she could say it? she didn’t say it so it wasn’t rape.
thank you. so much. thank you.
November 23, 2009 at 3:07 am
Hm, actually I don’t think that campaign was a failure. I think it raised a lot of people’s awareness about acquaintance rape, which had been a dirty secret and even glorified in movies (such as “Goldfinger”).
Before everyone gives up, please remember that cultural changes–and legal changes–can lower the incidence of rape. Southern Africa has a much worse rape problem than the US, and the US a much worse problem than Europe. Only decades ago in the US marital rape was not a crime and there was little legal protection (or social protection) for abused and stalked women. My mother was being stalked by a crazy guy in college in the late 70’s and the authorities laughed it off. A woman I work with today just ended an abusive relationship and the supervisors have bent over backwards helping her out, plus she’s getting assistance from a woman’s shelter to move. It’s incremental changes. Change the legal framework, change minds, educate teenagers, educate criminologists.
To OP, I don’t think it’s an accident that there was double the number of rapists in the Navy group as the college group. Remember that the college group and Navy group come from somewhat different walks of life. The college group requires a certain degree of discipline and also prior opportunity in life. The Navy group is going to draw heavily–or at least more heavily–from the ranks of the impoverished. From broken homes. From former juvenile delinquents looking to “straighten out”. (Though to be fair, if you have too much of a record, the military won’t have you.) There is a correlation between poverty and domestic violence. This is certainly not going to account for all rapists (in fact, I think there are quite a few among the ranks of the privileged, because they have no empathy for others, can’t imagine anything being denied them, and know they can use their position and power to get their way and roll the other party), but you are going to find more rapists–as well as all anti-social behavior–among the poor as opposed to the middle class. This certainly is not new news.
There may be some methodological differences, too, but I think you might find a higher self-report of all kinds of anti-social behavior (theft, assault, vandalism)–except drug use, which is well documented to be higher among those who can, well, afford to buy them–among the Navy group as opposed to the college group.
November 27, 2009 at 3:36 am
not-a-gator;
i suck – i someone didn’t get email notification for “follow-ups” and i never came to look. sorry
that said – thank you. reminding me [and everyone who reads this far down] that hope isn’t naive and that change CAN – HAS! – happened. i get “tired” because, well, it’s hard. not quitting. just whining.
thank you.
November 22, 2009 at 3:59 pm
[...] in den Busch zerren, ihr ein Messer an die Kehle halten und sie schänden, sind nicht die Mehrheit. Die Mehrheit sind Männer, Freunde, Arbeitskollegen, Partner, Sportler, Banker, Hausmänner, Arbeite…Diese Männer halten ihren Opfern kein Messer an den Hals sondern Alkohol an den [...]
November 22, 2009 at 10:50 pm
[...] warning) Which men are rapists? It’s far from easy to [...]
November 23, 2009 at 6:33 pm
Linked in a couple of spots and discussed. Thank you.
November 26, 2009 at 6:52 am
[...] Yes means Yes Blog, das die US-Studie wiedergibt (”Vergewaltigungsgesellschaft”), war eine der ersten Kommentatoren ein Mann. Er [...]
November 27, 2009 at 9:12 am
[...] week, I checked my email and found an article about men raping women they know, but not considering it rape, and an article about sex and gender in kinky play spaces both in my inbox, emailed to me by two [...]
November 30, 2009 at 11:04 am
[...] Yes Means Yes * Meet The Predators [...]
December 6, 2009 at 3:52 pm
[...] still something that We Don’t Talk About. Predators are given tacit cultural approval and so know they can get away with preying on us. Rape Jokes exist at [...]
December 10, 2009 at 7:09 am
[...] hysterischen Argumentationsweise indoktrinieren lassen. Ich zitiere mal aus den Kommentaren zu einer statischen Erhebung über Vergewaltigungen in den USA (zur Klarstellung: “Thomas” ist Autor des Artikels “Meet the Predators”, [...]
January 18, 2010 at 1:53 am
Thomas,
Fascinating article – and I agree with your conclusion that men have to do something to discipline the rapists within our ranks – those 4% of guys who cause so much harm and pain.
My question is – what exactly do you expect men to actually DO to stop these rapists?
Forgive me if I’m wrong, but I get the impression you want us to not laugh at their jokes and say mean things to them – and honestly, that just does not cut the mustard – it’s like treating a severed leg with a bandaid!
Maybe we should key into traditional masculinity and the old idea of men being protectors of the weak – that is, maybe, if a group of guys find out that a man in their circle is a rapist, they should beat the crap out of him, and make it very clear that he is expelled from their common community, and will get the crap beaten out of him if he returns.
It sounds harsh – and, quite frankly, it pretty much IS harsh!
But we’re talking about stopping rape here!
Traditionally masculine men are taught that “feelings are for girls and gays” so saying mean things to them won’t help very much – but a community beatdown is within the language of traditional masculinity and a man being “jumped out” of his community for a transgression would fit well within traditional masculine ideals.
It would also let men know that there is a social price to being a rapist.
January 21, 2010 at 9:43 pm
For Movie, Reviewed,
I’m not sure if you were aiming for satire, or what. But on the off chance that you weren’t, violence is not a solution to anything. And equating violence with traditional male values (or :ideals”) – which I think you do here, intentionally or not – only reinforces the notion that violence is a a real solution. It’s also simply not the case that all men, or even most men idealize violence.
Also, the notion that the role of men is to protect, (and that women are to be protected by men) also only strengthens gender stereotypes.
January 21, 2010 at 10:58 pm
Gyatso,
No, actually i wasn’t going for satire at all.
You see, contrary to the nice pacifist myth, violence actually DOES SOLVE PROBLEMS.
If violence didn’t solve problems, why would cities have police departments, and why would countries have armies?
Violence and the implied threat of violence can be, and often are, very effective solutions to all sorts of problems – in particular, problems based in dysfunctional male acting out (like in this case, rape).
The reason I suggested violent peer discipline as a means of deterring rapists is because I felt Thomas’ “solutions” were grossly inadequate to the severity of the rape problem.
You see, that small percentage of men who commit rape on a regular basis are men who really believe in violence, and use violence on a regular basis in their interaction with women.
You aren’t going to deter these guys with fine words or appeals to their consciences.
You MIGHT be able to deter these guys if it became common social practice for the male peers of rapists to beat the crap out of them and ostracize them socially after physically chastising them.
Bottom line, the implied threat of violence DOES solve LOTS of problems.
In this case, if rapists feared the implied threat of peer violence against them if they raped, it might prevent them from raping, thus providing an solution to the rape question.
Let’s not let silly pacifist dogma and feminist idealism get in the way of providing safety for women and children.
January 22, 2010 at 7:42 am
Movie,
You are essentially arguing in favor of vigilante justice (also sometimes known known as lynch mobs). Vigilantes and lynch mobs appoint themselves as cops, judges and jurors – they know who is guilty. And they know what punishment to mete out – and they do so.
If they have been empowered to beat some people for a certain class of crimes they think those people may have committed, what wrongs do you think they would feel entitled to right? Think roving gangs of thugish men who take it upon themselves to enforce their version of moral conduct, to keep people in line.
If a group of friends knew – i.e. had reason to believe – one of their own had sexually assaulted another person, why would you encourage them to beat the crap out of the alleged suspect instead of encourage one or all of the group, anonomously or publically, to bring that possibility to the attention of the cops (assuming the person who was attacked was psychologically prepared to enter into the legal system)? Being arrested, tried, and serving a sentence is definitely a social consequence, so why not go that route?
Furthermore, this sort of action, nay, mindset, takes control out of the hands of the person who was raped. I have not ever been sexually attacked, so here I can only echo what I have heard or read from people who have been. The consensus seems to be that people process their rapes in their own unique ways, and on their own individual time lines. Various survivors have mentioned that male acquaintances of theirs, upon hearing of the rape, wanted to beat the crap out of, or ‘kill’ the attacker. However, none of those people who were attacked said they wanted that to happen, or in any way suggested that violence against their attacker would make things better for them or anyone else (and to be sure, I haven’t read all the literature on responses to being attacked).
The point I am trying to make is that support for people who have been raped, does not begin with making decisions for them – including to beat-up their attackers.
Finally, an after-the-fact beat-down does not prevent a rape that has already happened. And shunning someone from your group is no guarantee that they will behave better as a member of the next group they join, or that the next group they join will hold the same values or respect all beings as having the right to live free from fear. In other words, there’s no reason to think a violent response to a violent act would prevent violence in the future.
It would make more sense for people to talk more openly and more frequently about how they experience and relate to sexual (and other emotional) energy. If guys “don’t get it,” and if it’s not because they’re incapable of getting it (since many men do get it, there’s good reason to think that most men can too) – it’s possibly because they don’t feel they’re engaged in a conversation about themselves or people they know. They need then to feel like they have a part in the conversation and that the conversation could actually enrich their lives, and the lives of people they know and care about, significantly in so many ways.
January 22, 2010 at 11:01 am
Gyatso,
Yes, I do believe that, in many cases, vigilante justice can be a good thing.
Armed force is an effective deterrent to anti social behavior – which is why societies have police departments in the first place!
Incidentally, in your earlier post, you stated that you think that violence does not solve problems.
But your solution to rape involves police, courts and jails.
All of which are based on INSTITUTIONALIZED VIOLENCE.
So, in effect, you agree with me that violence does solve problems – but you believe in the organized state violence of the capitalist government, rather than the organized people’s violence of working class vigilantes.
Basically, we just believe in different types of organized violence.
And that’s fine – as long as you’re willing to admit that.
As for your apparent contention that government violence is somehow more fairly administered than the violence of the people, I think you are totally wrong.
Organized governmental violence in America is notorious for it’s open and blatant racism – and, worldwide, judicially sanctioned violence is well known for it’s capriciousness and how it is unequally applied to people based on race, class and status.
This is especially true when it comes to rape and other forms of violence against women.
As for your other idea, which can best be summarized as no rapist should be punished unless his victim thinks it’s OK, I have to disagree.
Women are socialized from earliest childhood to be submissive to men, to not cause trouble or inconvenience others and to take ill treatment meekly and without complaint.
Not surprisingly, many women tend to be overly forgiving of men who abuse them – including men who rape them.
This is precisely why so many men get away with raping women for so long.
We really cannot let that sexist socialization get in the way of punishing rapists.
The need to protect women as a group from rapists is far more important than the individual wishes of one particular women to forgive her rapist – especially when those wishes are themselves deeply rooted in institutionalized sexism!
Indeed, as you point out, a post rape beatdown will not stop the rape that has already happened – but it can prevent future rapes, especially if it became a widespread and common practice for rapists to suffer vigilante attacks.
As far as all of this talking-about-your-feelings stuff that you and Thomas are so enamorate of – GET REAL.
In a society where the vast majority of men are socialized to not talk about our feelings, do you even think that’s realistic?
I do not.
A bunch of men sitting around and ‘talking about their feelings’ is NOT going to stop rape.
A bunch of men in a circle stomping a rapist into the dirt, on the other hand, might actually help.
Look, men (and in particular working class men and men of color) are socialized to be the protectors of our loved ones and our communities – why not use that socialization for a good cause?
January 24, 2010 at 8:05 am
Movie, this doesn’t seem to be very productive – I don’t think you’ve thought through the implications of what you’re suggesting. I also haven’t seen you give any examples or evidence which would support your view, and moreover, show it to be preferable over any and all alternatives.
Secondly, to suggest that involving the police, the courts and legal system in reporting alleged rapes is participating in institutional violence is ridiculous. If it were true in the case of reporting rape, it would also be true in instances of reporting, oh I dunno, bike thefts, paying parking tickets and so on. And to suggest that those sort of interactions with the legal system are in anyway equal to or similar to the sort of physical and psychological violence that goes with and results from raping someone, or having a bunch of people beat the shit out of another dilutes the meaning of the word violence and demeans those who have been raped or beaten.
Thirdly, you talk about how men are socialized yet exclude from that process the ways we interact with each other that don’t involve beating people up. In other words, you do not seem to include as social forces the sorts of conversations fathers might have with their sons, or older brothers with thir younger brothers. You likewise don’t seem to include the ways in which young people are socialized through their school curriculums and so forth (and that curriculums are fluid).
Finally, you really didn’t address what I wrote. I didn’t suggest that men sit around and talk about their feelings. I didn’t even use the word “feelings”. You’ve basically set up a straw man and knocked it down. What I had in mind while writing, were the myriad ways we men socialize each other without necessarily thinking about it. If we did think about it a little more, I’m sure we could make several small, but nonetheless meaningful, adjustments to how we think and react around other people, especially women. And out of those small conversations and attitudinal changes, a few rapes might be prevented.
Adios
January 24, 2010 at 11:15 am
Gyatso,
The government itself is an institution of organized violence, through which a class maintains it’s power over all the other classes in a society.
Police departments are the purest reflection of that, what with the guns and nightsticks and all. Jails, which are facilities where people are denied their freedom on a systematic basis, also are a pure reflection of this as well. And, of courses, I’m sure you’re familiar with the institution known as the Armed Forces – because there’s nothing quite so violent as an army.
That’s what I mean by “institutionalized violence” – it’s a pretty common term, and I didn’t make it up, scholars have been talking about the government in those terms for a long long long time (think Karl Marx …or Vladimir Lenin).
So yes, parking tickets are a reflection of that institutionalized violence of the state – it’s embodied in that loaded 9mm Sig Sauer automatic on the hip of the police officer writing the ticket, and the authority (both legal and social) that she has to use that side arm to shoot and kill you.
Without that 9 mm, and the authority to use it at will, and the fact that that officer is backed up by thousands of other officers, and a judicial system, and a prison system, that parking ticket would just be a piece of paper, rather than a warrant that demands your money.
All relations between police (and the government in general) and the rest of society are fundamentally rooted in the government’s authority to be the sole legitimate source of institutionalized and organized violence in a society.
And yes, that is, at the end of the day, really not a whole lot different than any other kind of violence.
If you don’t believe me, just ask Rodney King.
Or Abner Louima.
Or get out the Ouija Board and ask Amedu Diallo.
As for your theory that we can abolish rape by changing school curricula and getting men to think about how we treat women.
Gyatso, rape has it’s roots in private property.
Let me give you a simplified explanation of what property and rape have to do with each other.
When private property as we know it today emerged about 5,000 years ago, and, like today, the bulk of the private property was in a few (male) hands (because that’s how private property works) suddenly the question of paternity becomes really important.
Before, nobody really cared that much about who the father of a child was – but now that there’s property and inheritance at stake, it suddenly becomes an earthshaking question.
They didn’t have DNA testing yet, so, the only practical way to determine paternity was to restrict female sexuality.
That’s when we get customs like marriage and taboos and laws against extramarital sex (which, as a practical matter, were always taboos and laws against FEMALE extramarital sex, because the whole POINT of monogamy was to restrict who WOMEN had sex with so you could always know with certainty who the father was).
This reduces women to the status of property, and women were often brought and sold as commodities (customs like arranged marriages and fathers “giving away the bride” are the historical legacy of this).
Of course, when you have property, and when property is held unequally (which is always the case in any society where there is private property) you will have theft.
Rape, in the classical legal definition of the crime, is when a man steals sexual access to the body of a woman who doesn’t “belong to him” – and before you get mad at me for saying that, remember that English common law (the origin of the American legal system you believe in so much) defined rape as a PROPERTY CRIME AGAINST THE FATHER OR HUSBAND OF THE VICTIM until well into the 19th century.
Once male/female sexual relations become commodified in the form of marriage, the emergence of rape was inevitable (as was the emergence of prostitution – and prostitution’s younger sister, pornography).
There’s a truly awesome book by Frederich Engels called “The Origin of The Family, Private Property and the State” that does a much better job of explaining this than I do.
You can get it on amazon.com and I think you should read it.
Because if you read it, with an open mind, you’ll understand precisely WHY your methods of trying to end rape (while leaving the social and economic forces that create rape intact) are doomed to failure.
Upon reflection, even MY methods are, at best, triage, because they too leave the unholy trinity of marriage, rape and prostitution/pornography – and the private property system from which they emerged – untouched.
But at least my methods are backed by armed force (and not just any force, but the armed force of the community, which is far better than the armed force of an alien and coercive government) – while, with all due respect to you and no insult intended to you as a person, yours are rooted in good intentions and hot air.